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July 2009 
To Seed or Not to Seed, THAT is the question!
Posted on Mar 24th, 2008
by 
Gemstar
Gemstar
Elvis Presley Are You Lonesome Tonight?
(Followed closely by the questions - Are you glowing tonight? Is your "light" shining bright?)
As most of those who know me for the outspoken, not-to-be-silenced person that I am, what I'm about to write will probably not surprise you. So before I write anything else here, I'd like to preface it with the words "I T O L D Y O U S O!!!!"
Now, going back to when the seeds and the whole "Trust" issue was raised last year, I pointed out, quite loudly at times, that the whole system, IMHO, stunk to high Hell. I was heavily disparaged by some for those remarks, even by those I had thought to be "friends". To a large measure, I have not changed my opinion on that. Because of those rants, and the number of persons, I guess, who wanted to show support (albeit not aloud, lest someone, the team perhaps, might take note) I somehow got my "glow circle" raised up to a "one". So, even though this extra amount of glow was supposed to delineate being a more "trusted" individual on this social-net scene, it really wasn't supposed to do that, according to "the team". I mean, how could someone who so vehemently, time after time, raised issues, like the really important issue of copyright, that made them squirm around (and then turn around and do exactly what they said they wouldn't do), be "trusted" by the team.... and then by extension, be permitted to be trusted by the rest of the people inhabiting the space???
So, just these past few days, all of a sudden, the "glow circle" has disappeared from our profile pages. Whether that is a permanent thing, apparently, has yet to be determined. I have been carefully following the discussions about this, and the relevant "seed" topic in two separate "pods" here - (Gaia Community, and Gaia Ambassadors), and what I see is that the system has done exactly what I suggested that it would do at the outset - it has become divisive, corrupted by those who don't want to participate (cheering for them loudly here!!!), and from the standpoint of so called "community building", is a disaster. It was supposed to (if you believe what some have said) help the team "guide" people toward the more acceptable level of conversation here. I haven't commented on this in those threads because I no longer belong to those "pods" - as well as over a half-dozen others that I left back in January, because of the copyright issues here.
Well, if "more acceptable" means following the party-line, then I'd say the jury (6 months into this disasterous mess) has yet to render a decisive decision. For one thing, this is way too large a community to attempt to "guide" it into any particular mind-set. There are a large grouping of Integralists (of whom it appears rank the highest, by the team at least). There are a minority, but appearing to be growing, of Christians, now forming a community here. There is a growing community of "Starseed" types, as well as a larger, and separate community of "2012" people, more concerned with health and DNA structuring. There are probably other sub-groups out there that I am currently not aware of, as well. (And, interestingly enough, many of these groups have a blended membership). In other words, there are several differently minded groups growing nicely, side-by-side, which could potentially serve as an example to the world out there, that differing philosophied peoples can still live, side-by-side, without attempting to stomp all over the others who are not like them. So my questions to the team to consider are:
1) How in Hell do you think you're going to be able to "guide" the community mind-set, when the minds you'd like to guide are in so great a variety?
2) Why would you want to "guide" the community into a particular mind-set, when it is so counter-productive to the original "Zaadz" intent of this space to "Be The Change"?
(And for purposes of this blog, at least, you'll have to find somewhere else to answer those questions, because that's NOT what this blog is about).
My own perceptions of this "guiding" based on the number of "2's and 3's" glowing I saw (and I spent quite a while just going around determining who had what kind of a glow) was that if you had Integralist leanings, then you were much more "trusted" than others. The team themselves were given an outright '20" score (and if this were based solely on posting and time here, as was suggested in one of the answers put forth this weekend) then there should have been many others who also shared in that amount of "trust". So there had to be manipulation of the score by the team themselves, in order for that "20" to be arrived at, initially, as the system was put into place. So how much more manipulation was there (or could there be, then) on the part of the team, to make one particular grouping of individuals appear to be more trusted than the rest???
Since the team has denoted this week as "Conversation Week" here on Gaia, I'm going to welcome anyone who wants to have a serious "conversation" about how bad this whole "Seed and Glow" thing has been for the growth of community here, to express that in their comments. While that might actually appear to be a negative thing to put out there, it's not meant to be taken in that light. The people who don't like the whole stinking system that's been put in place here are just as important a part of the fabric of this place (and maybe even bigger supporters in the long run) as those who heel and toe the party line in favour of the system.
I also know that it is sometimes hard for individuals who really haven't developed a strong back-bone yet to stand up and be counted, but I'm going to ask those of you in that position, to do that, just once here, by stepping up to the plate and letting the powers that be know, without any doubt, just how badly you dislike what has been done to the former glory of Zaadz by this ignoble system of point-keeping. I will also state here that anyone posting "nice" comments on this particular blog about the whole seed/glow thing will have their comment deleted. (It IS my prerogative, as blogger, to do that on my blog, BTW!) This blog post is STRICTLY for those who want to voice a dissenting voice, in conversation, about this whole issue.
In a way, this is also going to be my own measure of just how worthwhile it is for me to continue to expend energy in this community. Sure, I only have about a hundred "friends" listed here (**about half of whom haven't been on the 'site for nearly 3 to 6 months - which is also reflective, on the large scale, of the number of "registered" vs the number of "regularly active" attendees here at Gaia, from my own explorations), but I also know that many others besides friends do get the opportunity, if it's not prevented/censored, of reading the blogs as they are listed in the "community" listings. So what I'm looking for here is a reason to stay here, as I've been finding less and less reasons to do so, while being welcomed with open arms by others in other social networks to spend more time (and post without worry of future copyright issues) with them. I only have so much time available to do this kind of thing, and I've really wondered at times of the value of that time.
The biggest nail in the coffin to being here at all in any "business" capacity was pounded in last week when the team finally got off the pot and announced that the "Newsletter" feature was a no-go - so my intention of using the ZPro offering (and of ever paying for web-space here) went out the window with that announcement. So there isn't a whole lot holding me here right now. So I need to make a decision, but I've been careful not to make it a hasty one. So, what I'm saying is "Give me a good reason (or several of them if you like) why I should really consider staying".
So you, my fellow Gaians, can have your negative say about "the seeds" and "the glow" right here - have a nice conversation amongst yourselves, and I'll be back occasionally to put my fifty cents into the works. And...... Have a really nice week!!!
~~^v^~~ ~~^v^~~ ~~^v^~~ ~~^v^~~ ~~^v^~~
(**From what I've been able to determine from exploring the back end of the members list, as many as 35 to 40 thousand of those registered haven't been on here in at least the last 8 months [some much longer, up to almost two years], and another 25 to 30 thousand haven't been on here in the last three months - so, even with the additional "fold in" of 50 thousand "Gaiam" participants in January 2008, we're still floating numbers of "active" participants well-below the 100 thousand mark. So the inflated almost 160 thousand that Gaia, in their top banner, attempts to use to woo in members when they initially come here, is very bloated, to say the least!).
Access: Public
>My own perceptions of this “guiding” based on the number of “2's and 3's” glowing I saw >(and I spent quite a while just going around determining who had what kind of a glow)
Well then Please Gem, perhaps you can tell me what number i had!
i didn't even know we could do that until this weekend's conversation and
it was to late for me to look for myself!
Hi Ladybear - if memory serves me, you were at least at a two, maybe a three - I remember making somewhat of a mental note of this particularly when you briefly left, and I had said to myself at the time “Well, why would someone with that much going for them want to pull up stakes?” In your case, it was probably because of the many blogs you had done, and the amount of comments your blogging garnered, above any other thing, that earned you that amount of “glow”.
Just as a hint also, I have a feeling many people (if not all) using the Firefox browsers couldn't see the “glows”, whereas those of us using the IE7 browser could. Wondering now if this is why I was so chastised by a couple of the team to “get with the program” and get Firefox rather than sticking with IE7, which apparently the code here has a problem in translation. Maybe they really didn't want us looking at that! Actually did get Firefox and won't use it because the web-pages look like someone scrubbed them with a dirty cloth, and the interface is like going back to using IE5 for the favourites. But I didn't appreciate the chastisement of being an “old fogey” either by some of these youngsters (people less than half my age) on the team.
Thanks, Gem.
so it's a 2 or maybe 3, i wonder if it's written in the akashic record!
now if we could just figure out what the distinction of 2 or 3 means, we'd all
be enlightened!
Interesting take on your browers theory.
In some way, there seems to be a place in you that makes it sound like you've already gone. I wish you well whatever your decision.
Hugs, Lb
mouse power of observation must be very bad; mouse had not found gem's kind mention of mouse on her site so far =)
annie how, the seed idea is a seed idea *ahem* they want to base on 'guiding' ppl and rewarding ppl and very mickey mouse/disneyland with a death penalty stuff like that lah, seems kinda *familiar* if u live in *singapore*, so…….
say am I dissenting or….? Even I dont know. If there is a space between my lines maybe something could be read there. Maybe you will delete comment of mouse. It is okay, I still love all you wrote to me about =)
just shows you - I live in faerie land, and had no idea about all this glowing and seed thingy. I give out seeds to folks wondering what does it matter as I never did get how it all works out in the end.
I have no idea if I glow on Gaia. I am quite sure I glow in my world. And I just upped my voltage this weekend growing and learning and loving, and receiving my fourth Rolfing session.
Dearest Gemstar,
I love reading your blogs. I have to admit this one is a tad over my head. I think of you as brave, courageous and bold.
I was passionate about Zaadz 'cause I loved what Brian was creating. I was always amazed how he would write back personally no matter how busy his life was. I love that he is moving onward and upward. That Zaadz changed was inevitable once it was sold. As the saying goes “this too will change.”
And so now we have Gaia. I have no idea about all the sub sets and such on here. I flit about my friends, learning and loving as I flutter around. Gaia is still a wonderful place to meet some extraordinary beings. I get to play, and chat, and learn from lots of amazing folks across this beautiful planet, day and night.
I have known some of the staff for a long time and they are still as awesome as they were back in the early days of Zaadz.
So, even though the huge inspiring power that Brian created and grew with Zaadz has moved on, I see that we zaadsters, and the folks who joined Gaia after Brian have breathed our own power into our circle. Gaia is us.
If the issues with copyright etc., cause a big problem I think the group that it affects will not be happy and make their choices.
The other day I had someone get upset with me 'cause of a pic that I consider most normal and totally non offensive to the max. After I picked myself up off the floor from the shock, I realized how huge my world is, and how full of love, inspiration, excitement, growth, color, music, and magic it is. So I moved on with a prayer of gratitude and a huge smile.
If enough folks interrupted my playfulness, learning, connecting and communication here I have the choice to not be here.
Until then I love my friends here. I am thankful that the company who owns Gaia is keeping it afloat. I thank the sweet, helpful staff for their work. I worked with the public for many years and know how much extra that adds onto one's job.
And so I glow on……in my own special jaguar/faerie way of being.
Hugs to you gemstar. I do so love your power and your passion.
And I see my sweet sister ladybear who always glows in my heart.
I do not know Ascended Mouseter, hi.
Have included a little poem that works for people and for Gaia, for me.
Love, light and laughter, and huge, warm jaguar hugs, glowing and sparkling.
aho.
A Reason, a Season, or a Lifetime
People come into your life for a reason, a season, or
a lifetime. When you figure out which one it is, you
will know what to do for each person.
When someone is in your life for a REASON … It is
usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have
come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you
with guidance and support, to aid you physically,
emotionally, or spiritually. They may seem like a
godsend, and they are! They are there for the reason
you need them to be.
Then, without any wrong doing on your part, or at an
inconvenient time, this person will say or do something
to bring the relationship to an end.
Sometimes they die.
Sometimes they walk away.
Sometimes they act up and force you to take a stand.
What we must realise is that our need has been met, our
desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you
sent up has been answered. And now it is time to move on.
When people come into your life for a SEASON …
Because your turn has come to share, grow, or learn.
They bring you an experience of peace, or make you laugh.
They may teach you something you have never done.
They usually give you an unbelievable amount
of joy. Believe it! It is real! But, only for a season.
LIFETIME relationships teach you lifetime lessons; things
you must build upon in order to have a solid emotional
foundation. Your job is to accept the lesson, love the
person, and put what you have learned to use in all
other relationships and areas of your life. It is said
that love is blind but friendship is clairvoyant.
Author Unknown
btw…listening to Elvis has me glowing…..;-)
Hi Gemstar,
I saw some yellowy thing that looked like a light bulb, but never even had any curiousity about what it was. I don't know when it appeared and didn't know that it left so it has made absolutely no impact or difference in my life.
You have given a very good account of what happened and how you felt about it. For some reason this affected you, and set off strong feelings, and no one can deny you your feelings about “the seeds”. and the “glow” The seeds and glow are not real things - they are just ideas. We all let ideas disturb our peace at times. At any time, we can crank our level of disturbance up or down. How much time and energy do we want to spend fighting someone else's idea? How much can they really hurt us?
My Buddhist teacher helped me with these words and really woke me up:
“You're angry because people aren't thinking and acting the way you think they should. How can you put so much of yourself into wishing others would behave other than they do? You are torturing yourself …stop risking your emotional safety trying to change the situation.”
I asked him, “should I just give up” - Answer - yes
I asked him “Aren't the good guys supposed to win?”
Answer - “No, the good guys are supposed to become Non-Attached, thereby winning.”
I hope you will continue stay around and keep glowing and enjoy some of the beauties here. Your blog piece about your childhood family home was a beauty and is one of the nicest things I 've read here on Gaia, and shows your gentle, sensitive nature and the beauty you saw and remembered.
We have to keep finding the beauty and feed that.
((hugs)) and lots of love
mimi
I rarely seed. This is not bc I consciously want to hoard them,but bc I prefer to comment or send a letter. Seeds when I use them are kind of an after thought.
I use a mac so perhaps that explains why I never noticed the glow thingy much,certainly didn't know there was a rating system,as such that I was alotted a number….yet it doesn't matter,for two reasons,one ,the obvious is it's gone,and two what's important to me on this sight has nothing to do with ratings or seeds,or even numbers for that matter.
Finding thoughts,ideas,shaped in the form of words and pictures…often a form of self indulgence that has a strange benefit of making me glow.I have discovered a world out their different from the world out there.
I read your blogs,see your comments and acknowledge that your opinion does count,like the opinions of all of us do. Yet the beauty really is in the differences that bring us together as opposed to dividing us apart.
Now why i wanted to post on this blog of yours ;-)
The issue of trust. I've never felt as though I could not trust the team, not ever. They have welcomed me into this place called Zaadz/Gaia,and the price of admission was respect.
I see that you had a zPro page so your perspective was a little different,yet still the price of admission included respect.
Integral,2012,The secret etc……. they really are as important to the nature of this site,as anything you and I have to say….even if i don't see things quite like that.
Backbones don't necessarily mean you agree or disagree with anything,nor do they entail shouting from the mountain tops,as i see it a backbone is to support your body/mind through this life and we all do what we need to do to survive.
You don't want any comments on the guiding thing,as you mentioned above,so no comment s:-)
it is conversation week so this is my contribution,here on your blog,I am getting a sense though that I am not saying what you want to hear since you've mentioned sort of that above. is that how you hold conversations?
Is this the price I must pay to post a comment on your blog,agree with you?
But wait the most important part of this comment,why I want you to stay.
You do have something to say,your voice is important and it is being heard.
Yikes! I did not read the rules and regulations about this being open only to dissenters. Please feel free to delete my post, or let it stand. Everything is fine. All is well.
“Things as it is” ~~Shunryu Suzuki
Thanks for keeping your blogs real. You are one of the best facilitators of inquiry here…and I know what you mean about how people can turn their back on contraversy…but not me dear..I am with ya here…and appreciate oyu questioning everything.
Aley
Oops, Gemstar, I just reread your email that began this thread after reading Mimi's last note. That bit did not sink in about dissenters. Please feel free to zap me too if you find my comments inappropriate here.
Thanks for caring.
smiling, loving hugs
Gem, somewhere I feel sad that none of us, our writing, our blogs, our thoughts, emails, or presence is enough to overcome the feelings you have against those who manage this online community.
Then I see that you have found places elsewhere that you value. And I know that all is as it needs to be.
Whatever you decide to do, whenever you do it, I will think of you in loving light.
Dear Friends:
Well, first I'd like to thank everyone who expressed an opinion here for doing so (whether it was negative or not) ;), and no, in spite of my egotistical need for propping up, I will not delete any of the posts above this one for NOT being negative. I really appreciate the heartfelt responses that you all gave, and I learned much from each of you in the process.
In some ways this place has become a nasty addiction to me - pulling me away from things that I need to be doing right now in my life - it seems to be an all-or-nothing thing with me. The perfectionist and social-justice critic parts of me have a bad habit of dragging me into situations where I can bring them out to play, sometimes just for the sake of play, and at other times in cooperation with another part of me that just LOVES to procrastinate. But, I am getting to the bottom of this now, and all of these parts are finding it really hard to hide from the so-called “higher” part of me that just wants me to get on with what I'm supposed to be contributing to on the planet at this time. Not saying these things to garner any kind of sympathy or respect, either. Gads, that's the last thing I need right now!
I was not aware until just within the last month that many people couldn't see the “glow” thing. I think it was from the Support Pod that I garnered that tidbit. I was somewhat aware of what the “original” idea behind it would have been in connection with the seeds, although I see from Siona's post in the Gaia Community tonight, it was she who finally pulled the plug on the “glow” buttons, as it just wasn't working out as well as they thought it should.
But now, apparently they are going to try to implement “seeds” in a different way, but from what I'm reading, no one really has a firm grasp of what they want to accomplish with this social experiment. I'm still a little nauseated over the idea that they feel the need to “guide” anyone toward what they consider more relevance, either in that it is a certain person or group of persons offering the information, or the relevance of the information itself. I firmly believe that is so very misguided, and if all of this tinkering around with “seeds” doesn't destroy the community, the thinking behind it (as noted) will surely do so.
And that would be a shame, given the wonderful writings of even the few of you above who responded - and I'm sure there are hundreds more just as talented, heart-minded and eloquent others who, in their own ways that will want to get their messages out. But you may not have the requisite number of friends handing you seeds for your pod posts, or length of time on the pods, or may only post once in a blue moon, when something really shakes your respective tree. Under what I see (as has been expressed tonight by Jake and Siona) of the hoped for use of the seeds, those people would not be considered relevant enough. And that is just wrong!!! Everyone of you who responded above is eloquent in your own way. I don't want to see any of you ignored as not being “relevant” enough (not that any of you would be so marginalized), but the potential for it is there, under any kind of guided relevance system. What happened to the idea that says that when you are ready, the teacher appears? So what is relevant for one group may be entirely NOT relevant for another, at their particular stage of conscious evolution. Otherwise, just place a sign on the door “Only clones allowed!!!”
I'd like to only address Meenakshi's comment about my feelings “against those who manage the community” - it isn't the people who manage the place (although I'm still rankling from Matthews standard “must be your IE7 browser”” answer, and the suggestion of being a stubborn old fogey because I didn't want to move to Firefox to accommodate the code here, and Rapunzels pumping up his ideas - like who asked you!?!?!). Well, maybe a few tough feelings there……
But here's the crunch……. It's the idea that we were pretty well assured that everything was pretty well going to flow from Zaadz to Gaia on the basis of our ORIGINAL Zaadz experience, and when I pointed out the flaws in the Gaiam Terms, we were assured that we would have the old Zaadz terms, and then the “ooopsy” we got when the Gaiam Terms were implemented anyways (January 15th), and then the flip-back to Zaadz temporarily (two days later) for a month, because people were leaving in droves, and then Siona gushing that they had “made a few minor changes” in mid-February….. only to find the Gaiam Terms inserted, with a few minor dressings-up to make it appear like they were trying to respect our copyrights.
After several emails with Siona, it became evident that there was never any intention of doing more than listening and then carrying on the way they wanted to anyways. From the answers I got, they were always directed at a problem I hadn't mentioned - someone else's problem - which they, unfortunately didn't think was important enough to consider “relevant”. Apparently nor was my problem with this, and unfortunately by that time I had taken the conversation so far off-line, it would have been silly to try to get any traction in the gushing Gaia Community threads.
So I began to see where being here was becoming rather useless, even a liability, because of my own needs to protect my own future copyrights. Those of you who just come to contribute without future plans perhaps have a difficulty in seeing the importance of this. Not having control of how or where or when or if the material is being fractured for the sake of expediency is probably only relevant to those of you who are here for more than just communicating with friends. So while I really appreciate the friendships here, I have other considerations as well that, unfortunately, must take precedence over my personal feelings. That is why I am upset with Gaiam - not the management (the team as a whole), but the company who feels it can run roughshod over anyone.
Granted, we get the space for free - but then when the idea of what is “relevant” for their readership comes into play, one should be able to see that they want both ends of the stick. One very important piece of mine was (in my opinion) usurped out of a pod for display elsewhere on the web-site - one that Meenakshi commented on as being a “classic” - as an indication apparently of the calibre of writing on the web-site - but then no proper attribution (or link back to my website, as all links were flattened) was given, and that was during the time that the Zaadz terms were still in place, which in my opinion actually trashed those terms before we were actually being told they were trashed. So pardon me if I'm just a bit “gob-smacked” (J.Goddess knows what I mean by that :) ) with the audacity Gaiam has shown throughout this whole transition!!!!
So as Meenakshi has mentioned, I have found other places to write where I feel my future copyright on whatever it is I write is well protected. Other social networks seem to function just fine without the draconian kind of terms Gaiam insists are “necessary” to properly manage this web-space. I have pretty much decided that I will leave my profile up here, and I welcome any of you who wish to continue to communicate with me to do so, either through Gaia mail, or through my web-site. I will, however, be mostly elsewhere once I have finished off with this blog conversation, which I sense probably still has some relevance. ~~^v^~~
I've thought long and hard, what to say here. Those who know me a bit, know I've been a vocal opponent of the Seed based Reputation Score. Finally, I got from the Team the answer I'd long waited for - Jake said ”We are recognizing the difficulties in quantifying the value of a person and expressing that value to others in a group“ To which I answered in part - “You have answered totally my objection, and I recognized this from the beginning, I feel so relieved to be free of having beacons … of feeling compared to others, when that isn't truly possible.” There never was a fight between myself and the rest of the community, just an opinion. I continue to gain from the community - by which I mean the people and the place to share my philosophy and continued expansion - it is everything I could ever hope for and I have no serious complaint - really.
Yet, there seems to be much more involved in your situation. I've thought what advice I'd give, since you came to this blog with a question in your mind. If it were me, and it isn't, but if it were, I would recognize what it is that draws me back here. I would guess it is the people and interaction with them. Then, I would consider my concerns and I would separate out my “personal” relationships and their value and maintain those and move my commercial interests elsewhere.
I will always cherish the comfort your words provided to me when my FIL died. They ever remain with me as a confirmation that the work I did with him mattered, not that I did not know that already, in my own heart. Yet, your words remain there as well and you will forever be intertwined with the bittersweet memory of those days.
Wherever you go, whatever you do - I wish you only the best …
Deborah
Thank you, too, Deborah, for your heart-felt response to this blog, and what I expressed here. It was, in part, my own response to the questions you had raised on the Gaia Community and Ambassador pods.
I guess you are somewhat right about why I have continued on here - the friendships - although the interaction, except through blogs like this, seems to have been lost simply because I cannot (from the perspective of not being able to separate off parts of me, as you've suggested) truly interact anymore. When I am writing on a pod, such as the words I wrote to you that you mentioned, I am also generally in “teaching” mode, and as such I feel THAT material is mine from the standpoint it is my words, and not something that can belong to any company - but it was those exact words that the team, I guess, decided were theirs to use to help promote Gaia - even though, respecting the then-in-place Zaadz terms, they had no right to do so. And they would do it again - usurp, change, mutilate - whatever - for their own ends. That is where the trust was broken, and remains so because of the current Terms. So if my “commercial” interests, from that stand-point, need to be separated out, then there really isn't much of me at a personal level left to contribute here.
However, I am weary of the battle. So while I may continue to read in many different pods, I will probably only be rarely active in any of the four remaining ones to which I now belong. I will occasionally drop notes to friends, and if the mood strikes, I will post a blog with links to anything that I feel might be interesting to people here, and they can follow them off the web-site (and I won't bother making it so that it opens in another web-page, either).
Besides, I just bought a new, very expensive “toy” today, and when I take delivery of it next Thursday, most people are going to have trouble finding me for the dust storm in my wake….whoooopeeee!!!! LOL!!!!! (Manifestation is wonderful, isn't it?)
~~^v^~~
Appreciating you, as always.
Deborah